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	<title>Comments on: The mommy and daddy wars</title>
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	<link>http://www.thebeanblog.com/2009/06/19/the-mommy-and-daddy-wars/</link>
	<description>Trying to stay sane while parenting five kids, working full-time and going college part-time.</description>
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		<title>By: Leme</title>
		<link>http://www.thebeanblog.com/2009/06/19/the-mommy-and-daddy-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-61238</link>
		<dc:creator>Leme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 08:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebeanblog.com/?p=2064#comment-61238</guid>
		<description>I asked a very simple question. Since you expressed objection to your husband getting criticism for staying at home rather than working outside the home, I asked why is it wrong to tell men they should have a career and be independent when that is the same thing we have been telling women for the last 40 years? Do you not get it? We have told women to have their own careers and not be dependent on their husbands. I simply ask why is it wrong to tell men the exact same thing? Simple question. You object when people tell your husband he should get a job rather than stay at home. Why is that objectionable when it is the exact same identical thing we have been telling women? 

    Your initial response is to say that YOU never criticized women who stay at home. I never said YOU did. I said &quot;we&quot; meaning the society as a whole have advised women to continue with their careers rather than stay at home, so why is it wrong for society to advise men the exact same thing that society is advising women? You then respond that it&#039;s nobody&#039;s business. Well there must be a reason why you&#039;re writing publicly about your family. Maybe there were women in the &#039;60s and &#039;70s and today who think it&#039;s nobody&#039;s business that they choose to stay at home, but there is an awful lot of women who write books, articles, and essays condemning them for staying home, but that didn&#039;t stop these commenters from advising them to &quot;get a job.&quot; So again a simple question: Why is it nobody&#039;s business when a man stays home, but everybody&#039;s business when a woman stays home? I mean in the interest of equality, as long as we&#039;re making it everybody&#039;s business when women stay home rather than have a career, then let&#039;s also make it everybody&#039;s business when a man stays home rather than has a career. Equality right?

    If you like I&#039;ll be happy to quote you what Betty Friedan had to say about stay at home moms (why was it her &quot;business&quot; to comment on what other people did?) since you seem unfamiliar with statements. But you say she was concerned with the loneliness and isolation of stay at home moms. Fine. Then why is it wrong to be equally concerned about the loneliness and isolation of stay at home dads? Men who stay at home are a lot more lonely and isolated because they are not able to join groups of other men as women can join groups of other stay at home moms. So if it&#039;s acceptable to tell women that they shouldn&#039;t stay at home because they&#039;ll be lonely and isolated? That&#039;s okay? No one should tell you it&#039;s none of your business? Good, then it&#039;s equally acceptable to tell men the exact same thing, right? If we write that you&#039;re lonely and isolated at home, then intent is to advise you to leave home and get a job, which is exactly what people are telling your husband. 

    You say it&#039;s wrong for someone to &quot;stick their nose&quot; in someone else&#039;s business and tell them how to run their family. But again this gets back to the original question of why is it wrong when the family has a stay at home dad, but not wrong to tell someone &quot;how to run their family&quot; when the family has a stay at home mom? If you wish to say that no one should ever tell anyone how to run their family, I could agree, but since we have no problem with telling stay at home mom families how their families should be run and and that they should be working, then I can&#039;t have a problem with telling stay at home dad families exactly the same thing.


   &quot;Why would I tell my daughter to be a stay at home mom when I myself am I working mom?...But to answer your question no I encourage all my children to do well in school and be independent. I don&#039;t want any of my children to have to be dependent on someone else.&quot;

    I think that comment sums it all up perfectly. You were asked would you want your daughter to be a stay at home mom, and you responded that no you wouldnt because you want your children to &quot;be independent&quot; and because you don&#039;t want them &quot;to be dependent on someone else.&quot; Do you realize what you just said? You responded to a question about being a stay at home parent with strong statements negatively equating staying at home with being dependent. That&#039;s your husband. He is a stay at home parent and by your own definition that means he lacks independence and is dependent on you. You object to him being called a &quot;pussy&quot; and yet your own insistence that your children not be &quot;dependent on someone else&quot; shows you to have the same objection to not having your own career. It&#039;s very revealing of what people really think of stay at home parents when you ask them if they would want their daughters to be stay at home moms.  Your husband is not being called names because he spends time with his children, he&#039;s called negative names because he is dependent on you rather than independent as you insist you want all your children to be. Why is it so important that your children be independent but not your husband?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I asked a very simple question. Since you expressed objection to your husband getting criticism for staying at home rather than working outside the home, I asked why is it wrong to tell men they should have a career and be independent when that is the same thing we have been telling women for the last 40 years? Do you not get it? We have told women to have their own careers and not be dependent on their husbands. I simply ask why is it wrong to tell men the exact same thing? Simple question. You object when people tell your husband he should get a job rather than stay at home. Why is that objectionable when it is the exact same identical thing we have been telling women? </p>
<p>    Your initial response is to say that YOU never criticized women who stay at home. I never said YOU did. I said &#8220;we&#8221; meaning the society as a whole have advised women to continue with their careers rather than stay at home, so why is it wrong for society to advise men the exact same thing that society is advising women? You then respond that it&#8217;s nobody&#8217;s business. Well there must be a reason why you&#8217;re writing publicly about your family. Maybe there were women in the &#8217;60s and &#8217;70s and today who think it&#8217;s nobody&#8217;s business that they choose to stay at home, but there is an awful lot of women who write books, articles, and essays condemning them for staying home, but that didn&#8217;t stop these commenters from advising them to &#8220;get a job.&#8221; So again a simple question: Why is it nobody&#8217;s business when a man stays home, but everybody&#8217;s business when a woman stays home? I mean in the interest of equality, as long as we&#8217;re making it everybody&#8217;s business when women stay home rather than have a career, then let&#8217;s also make it everybody&#8217;s business when a man stays home rather than has a career. Equality right?</p>
<p>    If you like I&#8217;ll be happy to quote you what Betty Friedan had to say about stay at home moms (why was it her &#8220;business&#8221; to comment on what other people did?) since you seem unfamiliar with statements. But you say she was concerned with the loneliness and isolation of stay at home moms. Fine. Then why is it wrong to be equally concerned about the loneliness and isolation of stay at home dads? Men who stay at home are a lot more lonely and isolated because they are not able to join groups of other men as women can join groups of other stay at home moms. So if it&#8217;s acceptable to tell women that they shouldn&#8217;t stay at home because they&#8217;ll be lonely and isolated? That&#8217;s okay? No one should tell you it&#8217;s none of your business? Good, then it&#8217;s equally acceptable to tell men the exact same thing, right? If we write that you&#8217;re lonely and isolated at home, then intent is to advise you to leave home and get a job, which is exactly what people are telling your husband. </p>
<p>    You say it&#8217;s wrong for someone to &#8220;stick their nose&#8221; in someone else&#8217;s business and tell them how to run their family. But again this gets back to the original question of why is it wrong when the family has a stay at home dad, but not wrong to tell someone &#8220;how to run their family&#8221; when the family has a stay at home mom? If you wish to say that no one should ever tell anyone how to run their family, I could agree, but since we have no problem with telling stay at home mom families how their families should be run and and that they should be working, then I can&#8217;t have a problem with telling stay at home dad families exactly the same thing.</p>
<p>   &#8220;Why would I tell my daughter to be a stay at home mom when I myself am I working mom?&#8230;But to answer your question no I encourage all my children to do well in school and be independent. I don&#8217;t want any of my children to have to be dependent on someone else.&#8221;</p>
<p>    I think that comment sums it all up perfectly. You were asked would you want your daughter to be a stay at home mom, and you responded that no you wouldnt because you want your children to &#8220;be independent&#8221; and because you don&#8217;t want them &#8220;to be dependent on someone else.&#8221; Do you realize what you just said? You responded to a question about being a stay at home parent with strong statements negatively equating staying at home with being dependent. That&#8217;s your husband. He is a stay at home parent and by your own definition that means he lacks independence and is dependent on you. You object to him being called a &#8220;pussy&#8221; and yet your own insistence that your children not be &#8220;dependent on someone else&#8221; shows you to have the same objection to not having your own career. It&#8217;s very revealing of what people really think of stay at home parents when you ask them if they would want their daughters to be stay at home moms.  Your husband is not being called names because he spends time with his children, he&#8217;s called negative names because he is dependent on you rather than independent as you insist you want all your children to be. Why is it so important that your children be independent but not your husband?</p>
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		<title>By: Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://www.thebeanblog.com/2009/06/19/the-mommy-and-daddy-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-61179</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 23:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebeanblog.com/?p=2064#comment-61179</guid>
		<description>Great points. I&#039;m a work at home mom, and two of my sisters have their husbands as the stay at home parent. It all depends on what works for each family.

My oldest daughter is already expressing interest in being a stay at home mom. I&#039;ve made sure that she understands why she should get an education, but that if she chooses to be at home, it&#039;s her decision. And I talk to her a lot about the possibilities for working at home, so that she really understands that being an at home parent doesn&#039;t have to mean you don&#039;t earn anything, unless that&#039;s how you choose to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great points. I&#8217;m a work at home mom, and two of my sisters have their husbands as the stay at home parent. It all depends on what works for each family.</p>
<p>My oldest daughter is already expressing interest in being a stay at home mom. I&#8217;ve made sure that she understands why she should get an education, but that if she chooses to be at home, it&#8217;s her decision. And I talk to her a lot about the possibilities for working at home, so that she really understands that being an at home parent doesn&#8217;t have to mean you don&#8217;t earn anything, unless that&#8217;s how you choose to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine's Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.thebeanblog.com/2009/06/19/the-mommy-and-daddy-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-61176</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine's Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 00:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebeanblog.com/?p=2064#comment-61176</guid>
		<description>Well said Christine.  As you know, I have been independent, supporitng myself (and my family) all of my adult life.  I consider myself to be a feminist and a strong supporter of women&#039;s rights (and all rights).  

And, I totally agree with you that whether or not a man or a woman stays at home is decision to be made by the individuals and family unit involved.  For me, I would never chose to stay home - it would not fit my personality at all.  But, I would never condemn a woman or a man who chose to stay at home and care for her or his family.  As long as the family can support this without requiring me to pay for it :-)

I know, in your case, it was absolutely the right decision for Lee to chose to stay home with the children.  It had many, many benefits for the family.  It was actually less expensive for the family - since child care even in small towns is outrageously expensive, the income he would have been able to generate at the time wouldn&#039;t have outweighed the expense for caring for 3 children full time (and I think part time for the older boys).  

Plus, it allowed Lee to complete his education.  It is awesome that he was able to set this excellent example for the kids in the family - to show the importance of post-high school education.

And, I love that he was able to bond so closely with the kids.  Because we try to live up to these arbitrary stereotypes, too many Dads feel that they have to focus so much on their careers that they don&#039;t bond with their children.  I think this is the saddest thing of all.

I found the comments of your &quot;commenter&quot; to be insulting to women.  I am not sure where she got this &quot;40 years&quot; of telling women not to stay at home.  I was in junior high / high school 40 years ago and I was getting the opposite message.  I am excellent at Math and Science, but my school counselors thought my only career options were to TEACH math and science to others.  (Thankfully, I was able to break out of these preconceived notions in college.)  

We should always fight stereotypes and generalizations.  True equality comes from recognizing that the individual (and the family) are each unique and to celebrate the differences and the decisions that each makes for themselves; from recognizing that we can be happy with our ouwn choices and lives without comparing them to our neighbors expectations of what we should be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Christine.  As you know, I have been independent, supporitng myself (and my family) all of my adult life.  I consider myself to be a feminist and a strong supporter of women&#8217;s rights (and all rights).  </p>
<p>And, I totally agree with you that whether or not a man or a woman stays at home is decision to be made by the individuals and family unit involved.  For me, I would never chose to stay home &#8211; it would not fit my personality at all.  But, I would never condemn a woman or a man who chose to stay at home and care for her or his family.  As long as the family can support this without requiring me to pay for it <img src='http://thebeanblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I know, in your case, it was absolutely the right decision for Lee to chose to stay home with the children.  It had many, many benefits for the family.  It was actually less expensive for the family &#8211; since child care even in small towns is outrageously expensive, the income he would have been able to generate at the time wouldn&#8217;t have outweighed the expense for caring for 3 children full time (and I think part time for the older boys).  </p>
<p>Plus, it allowed Lee to complete his education.  It is awesome that he was able to set this excellent example for the kids in the family &#8211; to show the importance of post-high school education.</p>
<p>And, I love that he was able to bond so closely with the kids.  Because we try to live up to these arbitrary stereotypes, too many Dads feel that they have to focus so much on their careers that they don&#8217;t bond with their children.  I think this is the saddest thing of all.</p>
<p>I found the comments of your &#8220;commenter&#8221; to be insulting to women.  I am not sure where she got this &#8220;40 years&#8221; of telling women not to stay at home.  I was in junior high / high school 40 years ago and I was getting the opposite message.  I am excellent at Math and Science, but my school counselors thought my only career options were to TEACH math and science to others.  (Thankfully, I was able to break out of these preconceived notions in college.)  </p>
<p>We should always fight stereotypes and generalizations.  True equality comes from recognizing that the individual (and the family) are each unique and to celebrate the differences and the decisions that each makes for themselves; from recognizing that we can be happy with our ouwn choices and lives without comparing them to our neighbors expectations of what we should be.</p>
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